本篇采访时间要追溯到René “TeSeS” Madsen 刚加入哥本哈根火焰，磨合几个月后的2019年圣诞假期前。翻译来自晓夜今天吃什么宵夜，校对与排版来自樱井良。且看彼时仅19岁的TeSeS在哥本哈根火焰展现的凌云壮志以及一些未竟的理想，

以及如今的他也已作为Heroic的中坚力量达成了的目标与梦想。

初入游戏大门：

How did you get introduced to gaming? 

你最开始是如何接触到游戏的？
It started back when I was 8 years old. My family and I lived on a farm in a small town nearby Skjern in Jutland. My big brother played a lot on our family’s computer. Someday, I thought I’d better try it out as well. Since then, we have always argued about who should have access to the computer. We only had one computer available at home. Our parents started making a time schedule to make sure we both had an equal chance to play. Furthermore, my brother and I always fought about being the best and who got to play the most. We continued this competition for many years.

一切要从我八岁说起。那时候我们一家住在小镇的农场上，距离斯凯恩（日德兰半岛西侧的一座铁路小城）很近。我大哥在家里的电脑上玩一大堆游戏，于是某天我决定也试试。因为家里只有一台，我们经常为了电脑使用权而争吵不休，父母不得不划分我们的游玩时间以保证使用机会均等。此外，我们在谁打得更好、谁最有权利玩这两个问题上打得也是乐此不疲。我们之间的这种竞争持续了很多几年。

When did you start playing Counter-Strike? 

你是从什么时候开始接触CS：GO的？

I started playing [Counter-Strike, red.] Condition Zero, and I’ve played a wide variety of games. I’ve got maybe 60 different titles on my Steam, where I have 10 played hours or so. But I always return to CS. No matter what other game I try out, I always end up returning to CS.

I’ve always had a desire to become better. I have that competitive gene that always pushes me to keep going. I never quit or give up. It’s such a typical cliche, I know, but I definitely view it as a great strength in my mentality which is very resilient. I never settle or stop.

Well, that’s how I got introduced to CS. 

我最开始玩到的是反恐精英：零点行动（Counter-Strike, red. Condition Zero）。到现在我已经玩了相当多的游戏。我Steam库里大概有六十多个时长在10小时上下的游戏，但无论尝试其他什么游戏，我最终还是会回到CS的怀抱。我一直有不断变强的渴望，那种竞争的基因不断催促着我继续向前。我从来没有放弃过，也不会放弃。我知道这种话已经老掉牙了，但我清楚地把它看作是我心态上的一个巨大优势，而我的心态是非常有韧性的。我绝不会满足或停下脚步。

我就是这么接触到CS的。

Have you always felt that you had a certain talent when it comes to CS? That it was something you could master and perhaps achieve something with?

你在CS上有没有过这种感受：我大杀四方是天分使然，肯定能以此成就一番？

I guess so. When you approach a new title, there’s so much you have to learn from scratch. Eventually, I just chose to go all-in on CS. There’s so much more to CS than what I first imagined. I just think it’s awesome. You can always think of new tactics or elements in CS. I find it very compelling because I can always learn something new and get better.

我猜是吧。当你接触到新的事物，这其中都有很多需要从零开始学习的东西。最终我选择了全身心投入到CS里，这个比我一开始想象中多了太多的领域。真的太酷了，在CS中永远能想到新的战术或者内容。我认为就是这点深深吸引了我：在CS中，我可以一直学到新的东西，不断进步。

经典二选一：足球还是CS？

Have you ever competed in any traditional sports where you also found yourself using your ability to compete and your mental strength?

你有没有在传统体育项目的竞争中运用自己的能力和精神强度？

Definitely, yes. I played football for 8 years. We were competing on a high level, but then I began to feel my knees hurt and such. Then I had to choose another option which was to play CS. I thought it would be awesome to go all-in and it was also what I wanted to do.

肯定的。我踢足球足足有八年。我们队当时处在非常高的竞技水平上，但那之后我开始感觉到膝盖疼痛不适，只好转向另一个选项，CS。我觉得全身心投入CS会很了不起，这也正是当时我想要去做的。

So what you’re telling to anyone, myself included, who’s in their teenage years or mid twenties and who suffers from injuries from all the time spent on sports; we should just pursue a career in esport instead?

所以你是在告诉那些青少年和二十多岁的年轻人们，那些在运动上花费大量时间却遭遇伤病的人们；快来追求电竞人生吧！

Haha, yeah. Well I did both once. And it was really hard to fit both football and CS into my schedule. My CS practice was usually at afternoon which was at the same time as my football practice. Back then, I was playing CS part time.

哈哈，可以说是吧。我曾经尝试一心两用，最后发现要在我的日程表中同时安排足球和CS真的非常困难。我打半职业的时候，CS练习经常放在下午，正好和足球训练在同一时间段。

In the end you chose to put football behind and let everything evolve around CS?

最终你还是选择把足球放一边，全身心投入CS了？

Yes. But that was after I finished boarding school.

是的，但那是在我读完寄宿学校之后。

成为专业电竞选手的可能

When did you discover that you had the potential to become a professional CS player? 

你是在什么时候发现自己有成为CS职业选手的可能的？
After I finished boarding school, I was picked up by Thomas “haste” Dyrensborg whom I played with for 2 years. During that long period, we have won tournaments, but we have also done mediocre or even badly. Well it was a rollercoaster ride and we lost many matches. Besides that, we were always scouting for new players.

At a certain point, I was discovered by OpTic Gaming who took me in and that was when I truly discovered my own potential. But I have somehow always felt a certain self-confidence in CS. I have always felt at home in the game. In CS, I could isolate myself. I believe it has helped me a great deal through my life. I’ve always had one certain thing I was good at. 

在我从寄宿学校毕业后，我被Thomas “haste” Dyrensborg 选中，一起并肩作战了两年。在那段很长的时间中，队伍的状态像是过山车，我们赢过几个赛事，但我们也有发挥平平甚至更坏的时候。除此之外，我们一直在寻找新的队员。

在某个节点上，我被OpTic Gaming发现并带进了队伍，也是在那里我真正发现自己的天赋。但一直以来我都对自己在CS上非常自信。在CS中就像回到了家。投入CS时，我能将自己从现实世界剥离开。我相信这很大程度上帮助我度过生活。CS 就是那件我一直擅长的事情。

You have already been to big tournaments and competed against great teams. AcilioN has done the same throughout his somewhat longer career. What has it meant for you that you already have this experience with you from a young age when you joined Copenhagen Flames?

你已经参加过大赛，和许多顶尖的队伍竞争。AcilioN在他较长的职业生涯中也做了同样的事情。你作为一名从年轻且有大赛经验的选手加入哥本哈根火焰，这对于你来说意味着什么？

I played with Mathias “MSL” Lauridsen in OpTic Gaming and he brought me up to a certain level. Here, I really got hit by the epiphanies of how clever you become with the experiences you gain over time. I did feel that I learned a lot in OpTic Gaming, but I never really realized how much until I joined Copenhagen Flames. Now I know exactly what strengths and knowledge I bring to a team.

我曾在OpTic Gaming与Mathias“MSL”Lauridsen并肩作战，他将我提升到了一定的水平。在这里，我真的感受到随着时间的推移和经验的累积，自己是如何成为一名更聪明的选手。我确实感觉到自己在OpTic Gaming中学到了很多，但直到我加入哥本哈根火焰，我才真正意识到我到底学到了多少。现在我清楚地知道自己能为团队带来什么优势和知识了。

I’m very much surprised with how much I’ve learned the last couple of years without really realizing it until now. When I go to bed at night, I can’t stop thinking about CS and of what I have learned. So my time in OpTic Gaming has been very rewarding on a personal level. Also, in terms of participating in big tournaments and experience how everything works and how players behave towards each other. Especially the professional framework you go under when you play for a team like OpTic Gaming, has given me a certain understanding of professional esport. 

我非常吃惊地发现自己在这些年中到底学到了多少，这些收获我直到现在才意识到。从我个人能力层面来说， OpTic Gaming的这段经历让我受益匪浅。那时的我就算晚上躺在床上也忍不住继续琢磨CS和我学到的东西。除此之外，还有参与大赛，了解赛事如何运行，选手之间如何互动。特别是在像OpTic Gaming这样的队伍中，经历专业电子竞技的框架，使我增加了一些对于自身行业的理解。

个人长处和残局高光

What are your personal strengths? 

你觉得自己有那些长处？
My strengths are definitely that I reflect a lot about everything and that I always find a solution to my problems. If I struggle with finding a solution, I always ask for help.

My mentality is to always keep fighting even when you’re in the middle of a setback or adversity. And if you hit a wall, you just keep fighting through this wall. When I first joined Flames, everything went very well. Everybody said we were going through our honeymoon phase. But things did go south for a while, but I never stopped pushing through the wall that we hit. Many players fear they have to look for a new team when they hit a wall, but I just don’t want to give up on my team or team mates. We have to go through the struggles together instead of giving up. That as well is one of my assets.

I’m known a bit as a “fragger”. I just feel that I’ve learned a lot from different players especially haste and MSL. And I use this knowledge a lot. My lacking experience beforehand was definitely my weakness, but now I feel it has become one of my strengths. 

毫无疑问我的优势在于我时常反思一切，并且我总是能找到自己问题的解决方案。如果我遇到困难，我总会寻求帮助。我的心态是就算处于挫折或逆境中也要继续奋斗。如果遇到瓶颈了，只需要继续努力冲破。当我一开始加入哥本哈根火焰这支队伍时，所有事情都运作得很棒。每个人都说我们正在经历蜜月期。的确一切都非常顺利，但我从未停下突破我们面对的那堵墙。很多选手在他们撞上墙 的队伍遇到瓶颈时 时害怕他们不得不去寻找新的队伍，但我不想放弃我的队伍或者队友们。我们必须一起经历困难而非放弃。这也是我的财产之一。

我作为“Fragger”突破手稍微为人所知。我感觉我已经从不同的选手身上学到了很多，特别是haste和MSL。并且我也经常运用这些知识。以前缺少经验肯定是我的弱点，但如今我感觉它已经成为我的优势之一了。

I’m sure many want to know your secret of how you handle clutches so well. What is your secret when you are in a 1v4 clutch against a team with a full buy and you only have a Deagle in your possession and you still manage to win the round? What happens when you find yourself in such a situation and have to keep your composure and stay calm? 

我肯定有很多人希望知道你从容处理残局的秘密。当你发现自己身处一个1v4残局，对面全起而你只有一把沙鹰时，你是如何思考这样的局面并且去尝试赢下回合的？

I can imagine that many players would feel they have their backs against the wall and can’t see any way out. But I always see the options I have in store. You just have to choose the right option.

我能猜到许多选手会想找个背后靠墙的地方躲起来，对赢下残局不抱有希望。但我清楚自己面前有几条路，你只需要找到正确的那个。

What matters in clutches is that you have to isolate as many duels as possible. I’ve learned this from my time in OpTic Gaming and with haste. If you’re up against 4, you shouldn’t move away from your hiding spot or just start shooting against 4. You must always isolate your targets and your duels. It all comes down to timings on what your opponents do. You have to play a lot in order to gain enough experience and learn how to handle these situations.

对于残局来说，重要的是尽可能地将对手分散开。这点是我从OpTic Gaming和haste并肩作战时学习到的。面对四个对手，你不该做的是逃离你的藏身所，或者立马开枪射击四给人，而是分散你的对手和交火。最终这都取决于时机。处理残局需要大量练习以增长经验，以此学习如何处理这些情况。

高光：沙鹰1v4对阵Yalla

In that specific situation, you just mentioned where I clutched with my Deagle versus 4; we were first of all not against the best team. And they didn’t interpret the situation very well. They just handed me 1 on 1 duels. They had the upper hand and they just gave me the best possibility to secure that round. I just had to hit my shots. And that was it.

首先我们面对的不是最好的队伍，他们没有正确解读局势，给我了公平的一对一对枪机会。他们前期优势很大，但给我了最好的机会去赢得那一局，我只需要射击，命中就可以了。仅此而已。

校对注：由于比赛年代过于久远且重要性较低，现已无法找到这一段高光的高清视频了。但是为了文章原意还是保留了这段翻译，大家见谅。

战术头脑的体现

Back when I interviewed AcilioN, you had just begun as stand-in. I asked AcilioN about what you could contribute with to the team. He told your are very strategic. He also mentioned he viewed you as his strategic assistant. He was very surprised and pleased with your way of approaching CS and the set of skills you brought to the team from day 1.

回到我采访 AcilioN 的时候，你刚刚开始担任替补的身份。 我问到 AcilioN关于 你能为团队贡献什么。 他告诉你很有战略眼光。他还提到他将你视为他的战略助手。 他对你接触CS的方式以及从第一天起就为团队带来的一系列技能感到非常惊讶和高兴。

Yes, as I earlier mentioned about my experiences which was once my weakness but now my strength: I am very structured in CS. I want mutual agreements and know that we agree on the defaults we should go by, when we take map control. It is also very important for me to know exactly which grenades we still have available when we for instance push A. If we know which grenades we have left, we can build our tactics. 

是的，正如我之前在经验方面所提及，将自己的缺陷逆转为优势：在CS上，我打得非常有体系。我希望和队伍里的其他人达成一致，例如我们如何做默认，什么时候取得地图控制。在我们立刻打A时，对我来说清晰地知道队伍里还剩多少道具也非常重要。知道己方还剩多少道具，我们就能建立自己的进攻策略。

Another example is: farlig and I are holding A together on Overpass, and if we keep dying every time our opponents go Long A. It is very important for me to have an agreement with my partner of how to defense ourselves against their tactics of attacking the bomb sites. I think many of the lower ranked top tier teams in Denmark are well aware of their problems. They simply can’t find the right solution to fix them. They don’t make mutual agreements. I believe CS is about structure and that is what I try to master. 

We have several tactics on every map and we discuss a lot about which specific tactics we could use against every single opponent. We might also watch a demo, and figure out that our opponent has an awesome tactic but it doesn’t fit into our playbook.

另一个例子是，在Overpass中我和Farlig共同防守A区。如果对手总是通过进攻A大的方式打穿A包点，那么对我来说，和我的队友在如何针对对手进攻包点策略进行防守上达成共识就显得十分重要了。我相信丹麦很多排名较低的队伍都十分清楚自己的问题，只是找不到正确的方法去改正。他们的选手之间可能没有达成游戏理解的一致。我相信CS是讲求结构与体系的，这也是我努力想要掌握的。

我们在每一张地图上都有战术布置，并且讨论了很多针对某个对手的特定战术。我们也会看对手的demo，找出一些对手拥有的但不在我们战术本里的绝妙内容。

个人目标：与其加入Astralis，不如登顶做摘星人。

Have you got any personal goals you want to achieve before you someday retire from your professional CS career?

在你退役前有什么希望达成的个人目标吗？

I imagine many players have dreamed of joining Astralis. And that might as well be one of the greatest achievement to accomplish. 

But in my case, I’d rather build my own super team from scratch and climb the HLTV ranking together. Then in the end, we’d hopefully manage to beat Astralis rather than just joining the team.

我猜有很多选手梦想加入Astralis，这或许也是最伟大的成就之一。但在我看来，我更希望从无到有打造属于自己的超级战队，并和队友并肩攀登hltv排名。最后，我们希望能够打败Astralis，而不仅仅是加入那支队伍。

So it also comes down to loyalty to you?

所以这对你来说就是对于队伍的忠诚?

I find loyalty very crucial. You need to have each others’ back inside as well as outside of the game. You stick together in order to climb [the HLTV ranking, red.]. That’s exactly what Astralis have done. They have been a team for a couple of years now, and they have managed to hold the spot as #1 for 1,5 years? They did it because they stuck with each other. Let’s say they had split or kicked a player, when everything went wrong this year. That would have been completely crazy. But that’s what many of the lower top tier teams in Denmark do. When things go bad, you leave your team.

我认为忠诚非常重要。你需要和其他人在游戏内外都互相信任支持，团结一致向上攀爬hltv的排名——这正是Astrials所做到的。到现在，他们的阵容保持了好几年了，并且他们成功保持了一年半第一的位置？他们能取得这样的成绩是因为选手互相支持。假设说今年成绩非常不理想，他们阵容因此四分五裂或者踢掉了一名选手，事情就会完全不一样了。但这就是很多丹麦二线三线队伍所做的。事情变糟，你就得离开队伍。

To a certain point, I understand such a decision, but my opinion and mentality is that it’s always better to stick together as a team. When you have played together over a certain amount of time, you just know your team mates and how each other react. I believe it’s a giant advantage on a long-term basis. That’s why I always prefer staying together as a team in order to fight for a top spot among the best teams in the world. And you can always develop a player with talent to become extraordinary. That is just my view on CS: Don’t join Astralis – create your own super team and beat them! 

从某种角度上将，我理解这样的决定。但我的观点和态度是，比起踢人或者离开，保持队伍阵容永远是更好的选择。当你们已经并肩作战了特定时间，你就会更了解队友和他们的反应。我相信从长远看这是个巨大的优势。这也是为什么我永远更倾向于，作为一个团队，努力在世界上优秀的队伍们中夺得一席之地。你总可以培养有才华的选手，让他们兑现自己的天赋。这只是我对于CS的看法：与其加入Astralis，不如创造属于自己的超级队伍，打败他们。

When it comes to players being kicked or leaving a team, it’s quite emotional for fans of a player or a team to see them go separate ways which happens pretty often in esport.

当选手被踢或者离开队伍时，这对于选手或队伍的粉丝们来说都是相当伤感的，见证选手们走各自不同的路，而这已经成为电子竞技的常态。

Yeah, definitely! It does also happen in football. I think it’s just part of the world of sports – people go from one club or team to another.

是的，肯定的！这也同样发生在足球中。我认为这就是体育世界的一部分——人们从一个俱乐部或者队伍前往下一站。

But in football for instance, players contracts last for about 2-5 years whereas in esport it’s more normal to have a contract for maybe 6-12 months and that is if you’re even lucky enough. If you do well, you may extend your contract. Or if you become the front figure of a team, you may even continue for a longer period and then the changes happen on the rest of the line-up. You rebuild the roster over and over again and only keep a small core of one or two players. It might be emotionally tough for fans, but especially tough for you players?

但以足球为例，选手的合同大多在2-5年，而电竞行业中更常见的是半年到一年的合同，前提是你足够幸运。如果你表现出色，或许能续约；或者如果你成为这只队伍的门面，可能会待得时间更长，人员更替就发生在剩余的阵容中。你会重建队伍很多很多次，只保留1-2名的核心成员。这些变化可能会让粉丝悲伤难过，对你们职业选手来说是否会更难以接受？

Yes, it takes a toll on us. When I played with haste for two years, we had to go through many changes in our line-up because players left our team. For instance, sjuush, who’s now part of Tricked Esport, left and Nodios left for Fragsters. We’ve been through a lot and fought through very hard times, where we always had to find a new addition to our team and rebuild from scratch. It takes a toll on us players, and that is where my mentality kicks in: don’t give up. You always have something to work on.

是的，这对于我们来说也是种折磨。在我和haste同队的两年间，我们不得不经历很多次变阵，因为经常有选手离开我们的队伍。举个例子，和我们并肩作战过的sjuush现在是Tricked Esport的一员，而Nodios离开转而加入了Fragsters。我们经历并且战胜了很多困难，反复寻找新的成员加入并重建队伍于一片废墟中。这对于我们选手来说是一种折磨，而这正是我的心态发挥作用的时候：决不放弃。你永远能找到事做。

I also admire that haste, who is in his late twenties or so, has done this for so many years now. He just keeps carrying on. I respect him a lot for that. 

因此，我十分敬佩haste（译注：haste曾经在去年年初担任过Heroic的分析），这位接近而立之年的选手一直在带领团队不断重建，继续前进。

You must all be very mentally strong. You’re all so vulnerable. AcilioN has been kicked several times and he had to pick himself up over and over in order to reignite the flame within again. I truly respect you all for handling these issues in your lives. How you manage to hold yourselves together is admiring because some other people would perhaps have been broken by experiencing these repeating failures.

队伍几经波折，你们却都能保持内心坚忍不拔。AcilioN经历过好几次被踢，重振旗鼓，再次点燃内心的火焰。面对一而再再而三的失败，其他人可能会崩溃，但你们却能振作起来，不断前行。我发自内心地钦佩你们处理生命中的挫折的方式。

Yeah, true.

是的，千真万确。

译者注：作为TeSeS的现任队友与Heroic的残局大师，sjuush在2018年2月至2018年12月期间与TeSeS共同效力于GoldenGitte，作为步枪手大放异彩，贡献出不少残局，两人共同帮助队伍拿下了一些小型线下赛与线上赛冠军（例如NetParty Fyn 2018，力压Tricked夺冠）。但正如采访中所言，随着成绩起落，变阵像是一种难以逃脱的循环。2019年二月，Tricked Esport宣布二十岁的sjuush将代替PERCY出战，而后者很快被人员不足的GoldenGitte吸纳。换新的尝试并非一帆风顺，屡经人员变动后，重振旗鼓的GoldenGitte在三月参加了ESEA Advanced Season 30欧洲赛，此时18岁的TeSeS不再是队伍中最小的成员，与此同时一位更年轻的选手也开始渐渐出现在丹麦观众的视野，Jakob’jabbi’Nygaard。同队两个月后，TeSeS转而为OpTic填补上Marco 'Snappi' Pfeiffer离去的空缺，与Ismail 'refrezh' Ali并肩作战。两人在几个月后再次在Copenhagen Flames相遇，此时指挥正是Rasmus 'HooXi' Nielsen。当然我们都知道后来的故事，TeSeS于2020年4月加入Heroic，带着他的从无数次失败与波折中锻炼出的坚韧与对团队配合的理解，成为这支队伍的核心成员。

Now to something completely different: What’s your favourite weapon and map?

现在我们来聊点别的：你最喜欢的武器和地图是？

AK47 or M4 Silencer. But the M4 Silencer is just so bad at the moment. 

AK或者消音M4，但是消音M4现在太糟糕了。

My favourite map is Overpass, I found out during my time on OpTic Gaming. I had all the awesome roles on Overpass – and I always did well. I really feel I’ve had my best performances on this map.

我最喜欢的地图是Overpass，在OpTic时发现的。我在这张地图上打所有非常棒的位置——并且表现出色。我真的觉得我在这张地图上有过不少最佳发挥。

Do you prefer T or CT?

你更喜欢T还是CT呢？

It’s CT with Flames. It’s all about communication and great setups. I always have a partner I play with on CT. I like to play with a partner on the different sites. You tend to develop a personal relationship with your partner and I love that.

在哥本哈根火焰时的CT边。这取决于沟通和良好的安排。在CT边我总是有一个搭档一起防守。随着你们在不同点位合作，渐渐地会建立起私人关系。我喜欢这样。

Do you have an e-sport idol you look up to?

你在电竞行业中有敬仰的偶像吗？
No, not really. If anyone thinks like me about building a team from scratch and then reach the top together, I would look up to them. Well, the core of Astralis have done that and I’m a big fan of that. I admire them for doing that.

嗯，不算有。如果有人像我一样想从零开始组建一支团队，一起登上顶峰，我会尊敬他们。Astralis的核心选手们就做到了这点，我因此很钦佩他们。

They also stuck together when Dev1ce was sick and they had Dennis as stand-in.

他们在Dev1ce生病时期并由Dennis作为替补时也团结一致。
Exactly.

正是如此。

Do you have a favourite game you play besides CS. Maybe TFT which was AcilioN’s favourite game when I interviewed him?

你有除了CS之外喜欢的游戏吗？比如采访时AcilioN喜欢的TFT（云顶之弈）？

Haha, no. No. I don’t believe I have any other game I really play or love. I don’t play anything but CS at the moment. If I didn’t have CS, I wouldn’t know what to do. Either way it’s CS or back to high school.

哈哈，没有。没有游戏能分走我对CS的爱。就当下而言，除了CS我不打任何游戏。如果没和这个游戏相遇，我就不知道怎么办了。对我来说选择只有两个，要么是打CS，要么就是回去读高中。

And if you didn’t have the opportunity to go pro in CS, what would have happened in your life?

如果你没能成为CS的职业选手的话，你的生活可能会变成什么样的呢？

I would have been a salesman somewhere. I’m very lucky that I know how to play CS, haha. 

我可能是去哪里当销售了吧，哈哈，所以接触到这款游戏对我来说真的很幸运。

翻译来自晓夜今天吃什么宵夜，校对与排版来自樱井良。感谢您阅读到此，可以的话希望点赞转支持一下，非常感谢。